After reading the Payne text and reviewing the accompanying videos and articles, you should have clearer understandings about her framework and what others say about her premises. Which end of the continuum (strongly disagree, disagree, agree, strongly agree) do you tend to favor? Why? Support your points with references.
This is the second time that I have had to read the Ruby Payne text for a class. The first time that I read the book I strongly disagreed with the book and many of the points made in the book. I gave it another try as it has been several years since I read it, and read the entire book again. I kept my mind open and considered more deeply the points that she makes. Surprise, I strongly disagreed with the book again. There was a difference between my feelings about the book now and those I had several years ago. The first time I read the book it actually made me angry. As a person who grew up in poverty, I took it very personal. The second time I read it, I actually was able to pull out a couple of good points from the reading and things that I will try to implement in my classroom.
The main reason I have for disagreeing with this book is that I feel that it is over generalized and promotes stereotypes of those that live in poverty. The book does not talk much about the individual or point out that it is much more important to look at each individual situation than a group of people as a whole. This is especially important for those in situational poverty. Many of these people may have an education, know the hidden rules of the middle class and can speak in formal register. It would be very insulting to approach them in the manner Payne suggests. For a person coming into the field of teaching, who has never had an experience with people from poverty before, I feel this book could lead them in the wrong direction for dealing with students from poverty.
I have often wondered since my first reading of Payne’s book why it is so highly regarded and so often recommended reading for teachers and administrators. Bohn’s (Fall, 2007) article makes several good points about why this is the case. The first point she makes is that the book is easy to understand and makes us feel good. As educators, we are always looking for ways to better reach those hard to reach students. Students from poverty often have so many things going on outside of school that they are difficult to reach. This book on the surface makes one feel as if they can use these tools to better reach these kids. For those who agree with this book it seems like the answer to so many classroom issues regarding the culture of poverty. Another strong point that Bohn (Fall, 2007) makes is that there just aren’t a whole lot of resources available that discuss this issue. While it is an issue we all know exists, there has not been a lot written on the topic.
In reading the criticisms of Payne’s work, one of the strongest points I found was in the article written by Dr.Rury. In the article Rury (2006, July), discusses the fact that in almost all of Payne’s scenarios there are people engaging in questionable moral behavior. Even if the main character is an innocent child, they have fallen victim to the questionable moral character of an adult. These scenarios give the impression that all people from poverty either engage in questionable moral behavior or are victims of it. I believe this is dangerous for those who have come from a middle class background and may not have any experience with those from poverty. It gives a certain impression of a whole group of people that is not true.
Bohn, Anita Perna. (2007, Fall) Revisiting Ruby Payne. Rethinking Schools Online.
22 (1) p. 1-4.
Ng, J. C., & Rury, J. L. (2006, July). Poverty and education: A critical analysis of
the Ruby Payne phenomenon. Teachers College Record. Retrieved from
http://www.tcrecord.org [ID Number: 12596]
Michi333, thank you for your critique of Ruby Payne's work in her book, A Framework for Understanding Poverty. Like you, I find her work to be overly generalized. I was also bothered by what appeared to be a stereotypical view of people in poverty. Those stereotypes seemed to be evident in many areas including morality, finances, speech, goal setting, values, and work ethic to name a few. I was bothered by what was either flimsy evidence of research to support Payne's claims about people in poverty, or no evidence of research at all.
ReplyDeleteI also got the impression that her attempts to help educators make school more accessible for children of poverty, promoted a "homogenization" of sorts. Does that leave educators room to value the individual? At one point I asked myself if, as a teacher, I am supposed to change children to make them "fit in" in a school environment that has been created to work well for the middle-class, or if I should value individuals and work to make school accessible to everyone. In other words, do we make the child "fit" the school, or do we make the school work for the individual child? My impression is that Payne supports the former.
As we deal with students whose lives are fraught with obstacles and hardships of many kinds, who are impoverished beyond just finances, it becomes apparent that there are many types of poverty. We should remind ourselves that our students may lack what it takes to lead healthy, balanced lives regardless of their social or financial status. One thing that Payne promotes which resonated well with me is the idea of trying to understand where students come from. In other words, what is the underlying cause of difficulty in school? Is there a lack of any type of resource that might contribute to that difficulty? Like you said, it is important to consider the individual.
Payne may automatically assume some things about children in poverty, but at the heart of her message is a fundamental truth -- seek to understand. While she and I may approach the understanding process differently, I agree with her that we should know our students as well as possible. I think her work suggests she has jumped to some stereotypical views in an attempt to gain understanding.
I, too, hope that teachers don't take Payne's views at face value. In the absence of other resources geared toward supporting students whose home lives make their school experience particularly challenging for themselves and their teachers, my concern is that educators will opt to fill the void by adopting Payne's views without carefully scrutenizing them.
Edwinna T.
I really appreciated your perspective on the reading. I understand as an educator that we should not speak in generalizations. We should interact with each student on an individual basis. I feel as long as I remember this point I should be able to use some of the tools presented in the reading to help my students find success. I think you have a good point about possibly offending people by some aspects of this approach. I had the same thoughts as I was reading and I wondered how I was supposed to know whether a student is from generational or situational poverty.
ReplyDeleteYour explanation of the aspects of the reading which you did not agree with was written very well and inspired me to think further on the topic. However, you mentioned there were some good points you found in the reading and I was left wondering what those points were.
This affirms just how important context and point-of-view are. We come into a discussion with different sets of experiences. As one who has spent most of life in a middle-upper middle class, I appreciate reading the thoughts of someone who had a completely different view of the material. Reminding the reader that the framework generalizes and possibly stereotypes promotes second consideration of the material. I believe that this is crucial step with all educational theories. Sensitivity with those who are impoverished must play hand-in-hand with any strategies considered for a classroom. This blog was a good reminder of this practice.
ReplyDeleteMany strategies which Payne references are good practices with all students. It is just as important for non-impoverished students to develop empathy for their peers. So without “labeling”, a teacher can use many of these strategies respectfully.
I would hope that no educator would see Payne’s framework as the panacea to teaching students from poverty. Like with all strategies, teachers should find what works for them. If one or two new strategies are adapted, the students and context must be the focus of that adaptation. I believe that Payne offers easy-to-understand CHOICES from which a teacher may draw new ideas. The book is simple to understand which is a huge asset when processing so much information. If the book were bogged down with statistical information, I believe that the conclusions and strategies might be overlooked. Payne does call this a framework, so that infers that it is a place to start – not end – the goal of reaching students from poverty.
Wow, after reading your Blog from a different point of view, I want to go back and reread the Payne book. When I read the book the first time, I did not realize all the generalizations that she made and appreciate you pointing these generalizations out from your point of view. Now that I think about it, Payne's scenarios do have characters with questionable morals which I agree with you is not the case with all people living in poverty. I also agree with you that students that are dealing with situational poverty would be offended by some of the approaches that Payne suggests. My district has many families who have suffered job loss due to the closing of GM plants and other manufacturing jobs in the area. These students do seem to the know the hidden rules of the middle class and do speak in the formal register. I appreciate you sharing your point of view, it was an eye opener and has made me think about if I was taking Payne's book to be more than it should be.
ReplyDeleteMichi,
ReplyDeleteI too am reading Payne's book for a class. I found as a read it that she did over generalize, but as an educated teacher I knew this as I read it. I don't lump my students into one category, but looked at each example she gave and saw glimpses of my students. I, along with other colleagues I have talked to know that Payne's book isn't a stand alone read. It is a beginning point and the start of a dialogue and then there is the need to read further and work further as a team to help students.
What I struggle with are her critics who don't/havent' taught k-12 students...they aren't coming up with other solutions for us in the classroom.
Angela Mier